Annual Aircraft Inspection Cost - TBO is an obsolete concept. Airlines and military went to 'on condition' maintenance 50 years ago. GA should learn from them. As long as an item can be inspected without disassembly, that is sufficient. Except for the Bendix two-in-one 'D' mags.
They are non-redundant black boxes that cost as much to inspect as to repair. Vacuum pumps are another, where infant mortality is more prevalent than old age. Redundancy is the solution. Under a sale-leaseback, an aircraft owner sells the aircraft to the lender or lessor, who then leases it back to the previous owner.
Annual Aircraft Inspection Cost
The transaction can give the aircraft user greater financial flexibility and certain tax advantages. Such deals often involve business aircraft, but owners of personal aircraft have often entered leasebacks with flight schools. As I tried to point out in my original post, just because those big shops have a panted floor, (we do), and a huge parts department, (we have that too), doesn't mean that they know what they are doing
Ongoing Costs When Purchasing An Aircraft
, and are conscientious in their work. All it means is that they, the CRS or individual A&P or A&P/IA, passed a test. Which, for airman is 70% or better. The FAA will soon get rid of the Inspection Authorization rating (soon, 10 years? I dunno) as it is a dead rating.
There is no difference in a 100 hour or an annual. But because they are finding evidence of IA's that are not doing their jobs, they have to find another way. Also, they will soon eliminate the "trophy" certificates.
These are people that aren't "actively engaged" in the profession, but do it anyway. I wouldn't get my heart valve replaced by a part time surgeon who is a full time car mechanic, why would I have my annual done by a full time surgeon with an IA certificate?
The regs on this are clear too. You cite overlooked items, yet at the end of the day, its people that miss items, people that tender invoices, repair station or not, its unfortunate, but these things happen.
Aircraft Operating Costs Fuel And Supplies
Also, you brought up a cost, which is not related to value. The value of the latter description I gave you (two mechanics that help each other out) is priceless, what kind of dollar value can you put on that?
The cost of the first scenario is zero, except maybe short term, the aircraft owner convinces himself he did good by saving money, and the mechanic thinks he did good to make a quick $600. First Time Annuals: first time annuals with J&G Aviation will have a one time set up charge added for setting up equipment list, AD report, retrieving ICA's and electronic copy of logbooks.
The charges are as follows: The problem goes both ways with customer and provider. The scenario you are describing I believe would be the exception to what happens on a daily basis. I believe that the situation I described presents a more accurate picture of our industry today.
While I don't put a dollar value on the quality of the workmanship, I question some in the industry who provide these services at a very low price and who don't conduct thorough inspections. On the flip side, customers who seek out these types of services are equally responsible.
Aircraft Maintenance
Repair stations must obtain certification and must continually keep up with those requirements to stay in business. One man shops just aren't scrutinized in this manner. One word, Experimental. know your plane from spinner to tail.
Seek help when you have questions. Listen to those with knowledge/experience, then get your hands dirty and do your own work. Too bad the U.S. Does not have a program similar to Canada where an owner can do his own work, assuming he/she is competent.
No reason an owner should not be able to sign off their own annual for a non complex aircraft that's certified. Additionally, owner assisted maintenance under the watchful eye of a GOOD mechanic or shop is not only legal per the FAA, but encouraged by AOPA, EAA, The Aviation Consumer publication and other professional aviation organizations.
While this posture may impose competition with shops, it should not automatically be interpreted as a threat to shops nor owner acceptance of low standards. It is simply an avenue to achieve excellent results and knowledge while saving dollars.
Hangar/Storage Costs
The other point that you seemed to have missed is that no matter where you take your airplane, whether it be a small shop, a big shop, a huge FBO, or "Bennie" working out of the back of his pick-up, you run
the risk of getting screwed or finding that "jewel" maintenance provider. This scenario exists in everything. That part you bought for your boat, the oil change you had done on your car, everything. Instructions for Continued Airworthiness (ICA): Supplemental Type Certificates (STCs) installed in an aircraft will have mandatory Instructions for Continued Airworthiness (ICAs).
For any ICAs requiring 1 hour or greater to accomplish, the labor and parts costs will be an additional charge to the flat rate. For ICAs taking less than 1 hour to accomplish, the estimate will include 1 hour added for every 2 ICAs.
NOTE: actual invoice will be the lesser of the estimated ICA cost or actual. For more information read PB, That's what I love about forums such as this one. Here I have been flying 44 years, have owned 4 aircraft and never knew about the information you provided about prop dressing and painting.
Avoid Overbuying
Thanks for that. It just shows that when a pilot/owner thinks he is aware of most things regarding aviation and maintenance, a fellow pilot comes up with something totally new, valid and important. It's all about helping each other!!
Thanks again. I find it entertaining when you come to the conclusion that you "hurt my feelings". Please don't flatter yourself. You couldn't hurt my feelings if you tried and stating that you did so is very presumptuous and a bit arrogant in and of itself.
Paying more – often LOTS more – doesn't guarantee anything other than you've paid more. I've seen, not just heard about, a big bucks FBO which "fixed" a wobbling Cessna spinner by wrapping the front bulkhead with duct tape.
The FAA had a few harsh words for them, evidently not enough, because they are still in business. I've had an Official Cessna Dealer ruin every Southco fastener on the cowling of MY OWN airplane because the "mechanic" used an air wrench on the quarter turn fasteners.
Aircraft Cost
Then they claimed that "they were like that". I'd much rather find a good independent IA who will come out to my airplane, let me help with the annual, and who will have to answer to ME, PERSONALLY for what he does, not hide behind some big, fancy company.
There's a reason FBOs don't like ramp annuals – that is because in my limited 40 years of aviation experience, you can often get a much better job for much less money, especially on simple, older airplanes which the FBO doesn't even want
to touch because they know they can't make much money on them. If you like paying Gulfstream prices for an annual on a 152 or a Warrior, by all means, find the biggest, shiniest and most expensive FBO you can and write some huge checks.
Mike Busch is a writer, lecturer, pilot and AP. He teaches free online courses on defensive maintenance through EAA, Avweb, Cessna pilot association and savvy aviator www.savvyaviator.com/. He also manages maintenance and counsels those trapped by shops that hold planes hostage.
Ownership/Cost Sharing
He has some really interesting stories and solutions. If you haven't heard of him or been through his courses I strongly urge owners to google his name and read his articles. It would benefit renters too.
You get what you pay for? Not always. I challenge you to walk in to any car showroom and just blindly lay down whatever dollars they are asking for on the price of that new car.
After all, you should realize that their overhead expenses are as high or higher than YOUR shop's, so you should keep that in mind and not try to challenge them on the purchase price—correct? Or do we have a double standard here?
Under the regulations, the agency doing the repairs (which means A&P.IA or repair station) must use every available means to make sure they are completing the task in accordance with manufacturers instructions. Believe it or not, as A&P's we have currency requirements, just like pilots.
Aircraft Insurance
Although I am "certified" to work on a Lear, I am not current, and do not possess a maintenance library and may not have the tools to do the job, therefore, I am not qualified. Just like a pilot may possess a single engine land rating, he is "certified" to fly any single engine land plane.
However, he may not be qualified to fly a PC-XII, if he has only flown a Bonanza. I raised this at an FAA seminar and I was told: a) As work for the FAA. The customer pays our bill, but that we work for the FAA (IAs are designees).
b) prop shops should do the paint. They have the equipment and that's what they are there for. While buying an airplane involves several steps, from research and pre-buy inspections to securing a loan or gathering the cash for the purchase, arguably the more significant expenses kick in after you take ownership.
Here are the costs to expect. For you to have concluded that my employment and preference for good independent mechanics along with owner participation to be an "it's us against them" (your words) situation is simply an unfortunate misinterpretation on your part.
Buying A Used Aircraft
Two schools of thought to consider for you. Cheap customers don't make good customers and dead customers don't make good customers either. Good repair shops won't fool with the customer who wants a pencil whipped annually it doesn't matter how they operate, as an individual or repair station.
An annual/100 hr is just an inspection. FAR43 does say to inspect the oil filter/screen, so either I let them change oil and filter or I give them the last cut and inspected filter. Compression checks are generally a tradition that tells us little more than pulling the prop thru by hand.
I also dislike mechanics messing with spark plugs because pre-ignition events frequently follow spark plug cleaning. It is only a perception that the quality of work from one entity is better than the other, not a fact.
I am an A&P and owned and operated a repair station. The repair station certificate did not let us convey any additional value or safety to the owner over an IA. It did raise the cost of our shop labor, as it took one person almost full time just to keep up with regulatory requirements (i.e. paperwork) for the repair station.
Don’t Skip The Pre-Buy
As a minimum, tell them to do the inspection and fix nothing. A signed agreement is a lifesaver here. Then you and the shop foreman should go over the list of discrepancies and either decline, defer or authorize repairs.
The worst that can happen is they sign off an annual with discrepancies with a list of discrepancies given to the owner. That's it! If they refuse to do it that way find another shop. Not sure what you are saying here.
I have no problem with someone not wanting to change their own oil. That's what A&P's are there for and charge for. I wouldn't ask an A&P to subsidize my hobby, but then again why or how I fly is my business and I should be treated the same as anyone else.
Where the problem lies is many times the shop, particularly avionics shops, since you brought them up, that charge many, many times more than their hourly labor charge to do the job. They charge 2, 3, 4 or more times the going rate, because they can.
They have a mini-monopoly on the installation and hold the sign off over the aircraft owners head. Hey I see it in the auto and marine industries too. Heck lawyers are the worst! I was also involved with the Lycoming oil pump AD that appeared to require replacement of oil pumps on all Lycomings.
But there were many exceptions. Nobody knew them. I and a few others got the word out, saving owners thousands. McCauley strongly recommends that all blades be painted. Paint and primer protect blades from corrosion. McCauley recommends Sherwin-Williams products, but any industry equivalent is acceptable.
The following procedure is recommended, but any procedure achieving similar results is acceptable. Result? Plane down for a week, a $3,800.00 bill and my only complaint was to replace a burnt battery lead. The shop replaced items that did not need replacement and were perfectly airworthy and legal. AD affected items that would have passed inspection were replaced with new ones unnecessarily.
They didn't want to give me the replaced parts because they knew I would have them professionally inspected elsewhere. Well, I demanded the parts and did just that and the parts were deemed to be safe and in compliance.
Fuel prices vary quite a bit, but $5 per gallon is a good starting point. If you fly 200 hours a year, which is generally considered the point where owning a plane begins to make financial sense, and your Cessna 172 consumes seven gallons per hour you will spend $7,000 on avgas annually.
Larger high-performance models like the Bonanza, Cirrus, or Piper Saratoga could consume twice as much fuel. Many aircraft use a quart of oil every few hours in the air so the budget should account for that, plus any worn, broken, or missing parts, flat tires, and periodic failures of radios and instruments.
A plan's hourly cost can easily top $200, especially if you fly it 100 hours or less each year. The average cost for annual maintenance on the example 172, provided that it's just routine maintenance and you don't have to comply with a crankshaft AD, should be less than $2,000.00 each year.
That is of course, it has been maintained well, and is not another POS. Several years ago, a pilot friend and former aircraft owner told me that owning an airplane is "more expensive than you would ever imagine," and that was assuming I already imagined that it would be extremely expensive, even staggeringly so.
Small airplanes require comprehensive annual inspections that typically cost between $600 and $1,200 for the most basic models but closer to $2,000 or $2,500 for a complex airplane like a Beechcraft Bonanza. Most guides suggest setting aside a few dollars per hour to cover the typical problems, often called squawks, that surface during these inspections.
Engines also have to be overhauled periodically, and this is among the biggest expenses a pilot might have to absorb. Manufacturers assign TBO, or time between overhaul, periods to each engine as a guide, although engines can perform far beyond TBO or need an overhaul well before.
Overhauls can cost $30,000 to $50,000, so a contribution of $25 to $50 to your personal maintenance fund for every hour you fly is reasonable. Mr. D'Anna, you obviously missed the many points that I made regarding independent A&P/IA's and those "Big" shops like the one that over charged you for the annual on your 140. Simply put, it takes more time to "baby sit"
you, which is money, (time=money). I lose control over the quality of the maintenance and the efficiency of our process if I have someone who is not tuned into the process as I am. Plus the fact that our insurance won't allow for you to be in the shop area "participating" in the repair of your aircraft.
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